Twisting Yourself to Fit In? You're Not Alone

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Hi there.

Welcome to this episode of your ultimate life, the podcast that's about one thing and one thing only, and that's creating a life of purpose, prosperity, and joy.

A life you love to wake up to every day and that you navigate well no matter what comes your way.

I'm excited to have a special guest with me today, Shanti Joy Agold.

Welcome to the show, Shanti.

Thank you, Kel, and thank you for having me here.

I am just stoked about you, about your life, about what you're doing.

And you know, you just in our little pre chat, you were telling me that one of the most fun things that happened you was you got to spend some time with one of your favorite humans on the planet, your dad, and have him as a guest on your show.

I want to ask you, when you release that story, and that be very soon, I'm sure to your audience, if, if your dream could happen, what do you hope, wish, want the energy and the message that people would get from listening to that conversation.

Yes.

So my dad, Ron David Gold, he would want me to share the lesson, which is go for it, whatever it is, and that there's very little to lose.

You go for what your dreams are.

You try, may just work.

If it doesn't, there's not a lot that can go wrong.

You just adjust, pivot, and keep moving.

And that is a part of a larger philosophy that he has.

And it's a beautiful thing.

He lives it every day, and I try to emulate it every day.

What a beautiful way to start this.

So I intentionally picked this background and I hope you guys are watching the video.

If you're listening.

Okay.

But you're missing out because I have picked this background of a gigantic stadium full of people.

And behind me, there's somebody in the middle.

You can't really see it, but there's a dude or a gal I don't know in a microphone talking to a whole stadium full of people.

And that's what I think about when I think about podcasts and messages and things.

And so, Shanti, I want to ask you a question, and I don't want you to be shy or bashful at all.

I'd like you to tell me and our audience how is Shanti intentionally adding good to the world?

Thank you.

For asking.

The way I'm intending to do that is really twofold.

One is through my coaching.

So I spent over 30 years in corporate as a sales leader and loved it and pivoted over the past couple years into the world of first professional coaching.

My target audience is the people I'm the most excited to serve.

And I think the most uniquely qualified to serve is guiding underrepresented people to confidently thrive in their careers by being fully themselves.

So having unified my lived personal and professional experiences, my wife and I are together coming up on 29 years and having navigated that with my corporate life and having some realizations about that kind of intersection, I want to interrupt you.

I want you to come right back where you were just put a comma there, 29 years.

I want to celebrate the awesomeness of the truth of partners who stay together for three decades.

That is something I have not achieved.

It is something so many people can't even imagine.

And I have to honor and applaud that heroic effort and sacrifice comma, back where you were.

Thank you.

It's hard for me to believe too, and it is really a blessing, so thank you for that.

And so those are the people that I really feel called to serve.

The most uniquely qualified to serve.

And I'm doing that work with a lot of gratitude in the world.

And the identif in identifying who I most wanted to work with.

It led to my second light bulb moment, which is my podcast Stories we haven't shared.

And that is an extension of the work.

It is pod.

It is a, I'm sorry, campfire style interview series where underrepresented people talk about the extra layers we navigate as we wind our way into the already complicated career landscape.

So it's really intended for, as a safe space for underrepresented people to feel seen, have a space of connection and feel less alone to learn from each other and also for allies, people who are curious about the stories and.

And are open and just don't have necessarily another place to go to learn about what other people's experiences might be in this way.

So that podcast has been, along with the coaching, the most fun and rewarding work that I've done to date in my life.

And it's what I'm currently immersed in.

So thank you.

That's a huge thing, the most fulfilling thing I've ever done.

And I'm not going to ask how old you are, but if you've been married 30 years, then, you know, people can make some guesses, which means you've Been around for a minute or two.

And the most fulfilling thing in your life, that's a powerful thing.

And underrepresented people, I know that since you're married to a woman, that would obviously indicate people that are, you know, gay or hetero.

No, I don't even know the right word to say.

Yeah, pick me, fix me if I'm blowing it.

But anyway.

But it's also broader than that because you and I talked about that.

And your dad, you know, he is a veteran and you thought about him in the context of, you know, the difficulty that we in the Western world have in taking care of those who are in that category.

Veterans, the homelessness, the suicide rate, the drugs, and all of the horrific stuff.

That's part of that.

So talk a little bit about the underrepresented and not just names, but tell me a little bit about the emotions and feelings that drive a person to feel.

You know, underrepresented is such a clinical word, but it's like lost and nobody can flipping hear my voice.

Tell me about that.

Yeah, it's really feeling like an outsider.

So it's fear of not belonging, fear of being misunderstood, fear of rejection.

I think those are a lot of the primary things that come up when I think about it.

So it's really.

Anyone who really navigates their life from the margins in some way, excuse me, has a non traditional path.

And while I've started the podcast with historically marginalized communities, I really do envision it widening over time because at the end of the day, I believe we all have a unique story.

And there's always moments in our lives when we feel like we're navigating from a place that may be a little bit outside of the norm and maybe there's something that we're hiding or not completely feeling safe or comfortable or confident to share.

So I think it's a pretty broad human spectrum, and I'm starting it in the space of kind of traditionally, historically marginalized communities.

So I love the words that you're using, you know, historically marginalized and navigating from the margins and those kind of things that are such delicate and light words when the truth is gut wrenching, hidden, you know, horrific layers of emotion.

I mean, you described it well, the extra layers that you have to navigate, jobs and life in general and your own family and everything else.

And I understand the use of those words, and I want to use some other words with it as we talk about it because of how intense and how deep and how powerful and how debilitating those Emotions and feelings of not belonging and having nobody to talk to and misunderstood and rejected and all the rest actually are and how much that affects us.

Yeah, there's definitely say commonality is guilt.

Shame are a big part of it in my experience, you know, earlier as I was working toward where I am now.

Not, not that it ever goes away completely.

It's a, it's a journey.

Right.

But that's a common theme, is the guilt and the shame and the isolation that one can feel, often feels when navigating a path that isn't considered or that the person, more importantly doesn't perceive as fitting in to a traditional role.

And it's not easy, it's difficult, it's heavy, it's exhausting.

I would say for me, and I've spoken with people across the spectrum of the marginalized communities about this.

A common thing is this idea of always scanning the room.

And some cases you're aware that you're doing it.

So you enter any space and you're trying to assess how do I fit in?

What might pop up that might put me on my heels.

How's this going to go?

Do I need to anticipate a question that may be asked that I may or may not want to answer?

How will I answer it?

Is something going to be said that will expose something about me that I'm not ready to be exposed?

And it's this scan that's happening constantly.

This scan you may or may not be aware of.

In some moments I think it's very present.

You're thinking about it and you're aware that it's happening.

And at other times it's just on automatic pilot.

And I can tell you it's.

It's exhausting.

It's.

It's exhausting.

Yeah.

There was a movie or an episode of something or other that I saw sometime in the last couple of weeks and somebody was going undercover.

Some agent was going undercover for something and pretending to be something they weren't.

And someone else on the other side that they were fooling.

Right.

Was onto him.

And the reason they were is because the person going undercover was a trained counter intelligence agent.

And so the other person saw him, immediately scanned the room.

Where's all the exits, where's the windows, where's this, where's that?

And habitually doing that.

And the other person being trained also noticed him doing all that and said, you're lying.

And so when you said all that, so scanning the room and like I can imagine it just gets in the way.

Like you don't even know how to speak, you show up as.

Especially if it's conscious, like talking and relating and being like from your own personal experience.

How much?

Especially before it becomes automatic.

Becomes automatic.

Maybe it drops a little bit in terms of the bandwidth that it takes in your head, but the word exhausting resonates strongly with me.

Tell me about some.

Whatever you're comfortable with, but some circumstance in your life where maybe 20 years ago, when you were less skilled, maybe you were always skilled.

I don't know.

I'm making some assumptions here.

Okay.

Got some funny stories, too.

Well, then tell me some.

Tell me something when you were.

That involves this scanning the room, getting ready to get smashed from some quarter that was unexpected and horrifyingly trying to decide how much armor to hold up.

And that's sort of all the stuff that goes on in my mind as you describe this.

Yeah.

And I have talked about this on my podcast as well.

There was a.

A chapter of close to 10 years when I was not comfortable, didn't feel safe to share my relationship with my now wife at work.

And so what would happen is, because you want to connect as a human, right?

You want to connect with people.

So someone would say, you know, how was your weekend?

And I would say, well, we went to the park and then we saw a movie.

And then they did this with no context.

They never established who they are.

And it's so the.

Oh, my God, the thought that goes into the languaging of that.

And what am I going to share?

What am I not going to share?

And I landed in this weird space of just doing the they thing because at least then I could tell the story.

It was just this hanging, uncomfortable weirdness that we hadn't established anything that really mattered in the conversation.

So doing versions of that for the better part of 10 years, I call it twisting and contorting.

And, you know, does that leave you feeling.

And you said, you know, you.

You prefaced it by saying, you know, we want to connect.

Like, duh.

Did that leave that wanting to connect feeling empty and shallow all the time?

In some ways, yes.

I think the more I've thought about this, and I've thought about it quite a bit over the past couple years, I think that it was the choosing to lie that really twisted me up, because it's against everything I believe in and everything I want to be in the world.

So, of course, it got in the way of connection on some levels.

And I did fortunately manage to make some good connections during that time.

I wasn't a Complete robot.

But it definitely got in the way 100%.

And I think what it did to me internally, though, was even more difficult because it felt really crappy to do so.

That was a long chapter.

10 years or any number of years, even approaching 10 or anything like that feels like a long time to be all twisted up in knots and upside down and backwards in your life in some respects.

What, like two things.

What, What.

What made you decide you were done living like that, and how did you go about unraveling the.

The.

The knots that were in your own life?

Yeah.

So, you know, that gets to the funny, in retrospect stories.

I.

I switched jobs, and when I started my next job, I just said, I'm done.

I refuse to do this anymore.

I can't do this anymore.

I don't want to do this anymore.

And I had researched the company enough to assess that it was likely, although you never know, hopefully likely a fairly safe environment.

I didn't do it the minute I walked in the door, say, probably waited about six months.

I wanted to give people a chance to get to know me and still keep scanning the room, making sure I was right and that it felt relatively safe.

And so I decided to come out at work, which in and of itself is kind of a weird thing, but, you know, that was the way I felt I needed to do it at the time.

Very different now.

So the first story is I had a.

I was leading a sales team, and I had a sales assistant.

And she's a lovely woman.

And I called her in, I said, hey, I have something I'd like to share with you.

And in my heart, I knew what it was.

And I hadn't really practiced it or rehearsed it.

I thought, well, it's in my heart.

It'll just happen, I'm sure.

And that didn't happen.

I wound up on a stream of consciousness.

I call it a ramble spiral.

I don't even remember the words that I was saying.

But the more I tried to say what I wanted to say and wasn't effectively communicating it and got more and more uncomfortable myself and then tried to course correct it, just kept going in deeper and deeper.

And this woman was lovely, and all I remember is her eyes just kept getting wider and wider and wider and wider as I was talking.

And I at some point, realized there was no way out of this gracefully.

So I just stopped and looked at her and said, you know what?

It's okay.

You can go.

It's fine.

No worries.

And she did.

And so I don't know what I said.

I know she got the message somewhere in there.

It couldn't have been more clumsy.

And she never said a word the entire time.

She didn't say a word and walked out.

And, you know, she left.

And I put my head in my hand, and it just, you know, it was.

What I've come to realize is, by the way, her reaction, I think, had nothing to do with what I was saying.

It was the way in which I was saying it.

My discomfort, my lack of connection to my words, all of it.

Right.

Was just.

That's what she was responding to because she was.

She was a terrific person.

She is a terrific person.

So that was pretty comical.

I have another one, but I don't know if you want to ask me any questions about that one first, so I do.

Just.

What was the fallout like?

She never said anything about the weird conversation and what happened?

Nothing.

It was.

It's almost like, you know, if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, did it make the sound?

Well, but did she tell everybody else that you were married to a woman?

I don't think so.

I don't.

I.

You know, I didn't get any sense that all of a sudden there was this big wave of, like, you know, murmuring.

I also pretty quickly took control and did it a second time.

So I didn't want to.

It wasn't her.

It was on me to communicate it, not her.

So I didn't sense anything after that conversation.

So I just had a thought that popped in my mind.

It was on me to communicate it.

What it makes me want to do is grab the mic from this dude behind me in the stadium and scream at everybody, what the heck is wrong with us?

That that feeling is in you, that it's on you to communicate some possibly upsetting or weird truth that's got none of their fricking business anyway and shouldn't amount to anything.

Like, how did we get here is, you know, makes me want to grab the mic and say that.

That's what sort of came up for me when you said, you know, it was on me to do this difficult or complex or embarrassing or whatever it is thing.

And I just thought, how did we get here?

That that's not.

Yeah, I feel like, you know, it's really about owning it in a healthy way, and that's something I needed to do for myself, which then could translate out to everyone else.

So definitely there's a piece of what you said.

And then what I also feel when I say that is just that self acceptance and that inner peace about it that only I could bring to a conversation.

That is absolutely a brilliant observation.

And the thing I just want to reiterate for the listeners here is there are going to be things in your own life, are things right this minute in your own life where you're not comfortable with them having nothing to do with marginalized groups or anything else.

You're not comfortable in your own skin about something.

And our ability, your ability, mine, Ashanti's, to come to terms with that, identify and get to come to peace with that is a key piece of this whole conversation about creating a life of purpose, prosperity and joy.

So that's just a sort of side note that popped in my mind as you said all that.

Yeah, 100%.

So if you have another story you want to tell, that's fine.

And then I want to move on to some other things about this that I think are really interesting.

I'll tell it quickly.

The second person I decided to come out to was my boss at the time, now a good friend of mine and someone I admired and continue to admire.

So I called her up on the phone and I remember where I was standing, it was in this office.

And I.

My now wife was having some knee surgery and I said, well, that's my excuse.

I'll let her know that my partner, which was the word I was using at the time, was having this knee surgery and that I would be needing to take some time off to.

To spend with her during the recovery and just wanted to clear it and pretty, pretty straightforward.

So I called her up and probably was speaking a little quietly given my state of mind at the time.

And I went through the whole thing and I got up the courage and I learned from my previous conversation about thinking about my words and connecting to what I was saying and just doing it and doing it with some strength.

And I got to the end.

I nailed it.

I'm picturing a gymnast that just landed.

I'm like, yes, awesome.

And she said, I actually have the day off today.

I'm at the mall with my daughter.

It's really noisy.

I couldn't hear you.

Could you please repeat that?

Oh, I thought that when you said I was talking quietly, I thought she's not going to have heard it.

So I then repeated the entire.

First of all, I was like the only me, right?

I can't believe this is happening.

And I.

So now I'm screaming because I went from one extreme to the other.

And now I screamed it at her, not like a maniac.

But really loud.

And I think I actually probably came out to the entire office that day because I was speaking at such a high volume the second time.

And anyway, of course she was cool about it.

And that was it after that, just business and life as usual.

But I did feel the need at that time to come out and have those conversations with.

With key stakeholders, so to speak.

So I want to change a little bit here, but before I do, I just want to love you.

And just because of all that crap.

I mean, we all have crap, and that particular is a societally messy piece of crap that we have, you know, because that's still as weird as it is.

And I just.

Anyway, I just feel compassion that I had a client who was a black person of color, black fellow, and he and I would often talk about the things that he experiences.

And I ask him to mention the things that go with that.

The scanning and the thinking and the feeling and the careful care with words and all the rest.

So it just reminded me that.

And I'm done with it.

So I just wanted to love you for that.

Now the question.

You're welcome.

The question is, in your work with marginalized communities, which means all the people that have that kind of thing, and especially the ones that have a big one, what are the similarities that you notice that make your coaching valuable?

Like things that you know, you're going to have to probably address.

Talk about, help people come to terms with both inner peace and outer expression and stuff?

Talk a little about that.

Yeah, And I think it's really all humans.

I think there's.

It's the walls that we build consciously are very end unconsciously.

And it's the unconscious ones that are really where the interesting work happens.

So I think again, probably all humans do it to some degree.

And I think our brains are wired to protect us in ways that lend them.

Lend itself to building some walls of protection with underrepresented communities.

I think it's a little more insidious because it's happening in.

Again, I was talking about it before, ways that we're aware of, ways we're not aware of.

So I think it's reconnecting people to their inner core in a way that brings those walls down and creates awareness of the walls and then makes it feel not only safe to have the walls come down, but an understanding that their strength, their power for themselves and for the people around them come from showing up vulnerably and authentically and opening that space up for them to understand that the things that make them unique Rather than set them apart in ways that understandably can create these defenses.

I mean, I just described my own experience, right.

That there's so much opportunity in seeing those walls, bringing them down and just unleashing the full thing that we are in the world.

What kind of questions do you ask me?

Would you ask me if you were trying to help me identify walls, unconscious walls that you either know from your experience are probably there, or you can hear and understand from my language and behavior that are definitely there.

What kind of.

How do you help people start to identify those?

Especially those things that we don't really think about or know about?

Yeah, I think first there's just awareness of current state of mind.

You know, what, you know, what are the feelings associated with their day to day?

Because your feelings dictate your actions and your thoughts.

Pretty basic, but so basic and so important.

So an awareness of their feelings and awareness of the self talk that is happening.

Right.

Because words matter and we all have self talk.

And is that self talk kind or unkind?

And to what degree, you know, because it may be a mix, but which is, which is the biggest voice that you're hearing?

What do you think the impact of that might be?

And ultimately connecting back to times in their life when they felt the most free and happy and authentic, and then noting that that gap becomes somewhat obvious in the discussions, like, oh, well, here's where I am, here's where I remember being something that was different.

And then with that awareness starting to kind of bring them back, so to speak.

How long does a person just in your experience work with you?

Is that like six months, A year?

Many years?

Like what, what goes on with the clients that are you're trying to help, not just identify their barriers, but then be okay with who they really are and let that be so.

And then if they've adopted some weird coping mechanisms because of that, then to get rid of those too, because now they're just okay with who they are.

Yeah, it varies.

I'd say six months minimum.

Typically the first part of the work is mental fitness work.

And that's exactly what it would sound like.

It's really the foundational work through a program called Positive Intelligence, which is a very powerful platform and framework.

And if you think about going to the gym, it's the same idea.

You do small daily reps, right.

Over and over and over again at a gym.

And instead of dumbbells, in this case, you're doing mental reps.

And as you do them, you're celebrating along the way.

So you get the dopamine hit and you get the celebration.

And then you come back and you do more small steps the next day and the next day and the next day.

And the goal is really to rewire the brain.

Sounds a little wonky to me, but redirect the brain, I guess.

So we were talking earlier about our survival brain from when we're kids.

Our survival brain is trained to be in action and it protects us from real and imagined dangers.

And over time, that brain, as it continues to wire in the direction of our survival brain, those grooves get deeper and deeper.

And that's where some automatic habits start to develop.

And over time, while it's great if you know you're being chased by a bear or you put your hand on a hot stove, you need that trigger to recognize danger.

But when it continues to activate beyond that initial warning sign, now it's not serving you.

It's the thing that's generating your negative thoughts, Whether that's guilt, shame, fear, et cetera.

And it's being able to over time, in this initial foundational period, do these reps to help you.

You three muscles catch when your survival brain is in action.

Have your self command muscle, which is to kind of bring you back into the present and recenter you in your, in your body, through your senses and then to pivot to your thrive brain.

And over time, by doing this continuously with these little reps and these little celebrations and these little moments that you start to recognize the progress through, start to tip the scales from your survival brain to your thrive brain and move more toward all the positive stuff, you know, being anchored in a place of peace and calm and clarity and creativity and innovation and having one of two things happen.

Either your brain will now instead of defaulting to your survival brain, will default to your thrive brain or it's life.

Right.

Sometimes your stuff's still going to kick in.

The negative stuff.

It's the ability to catch it in the moment, re center and pivot.

And so it's really kind of this brain reworking that's foundational, that then allows kind of the deeper work and the deeper discovery and shifts to happen throughout the rest of the time.

I work with them.

So my first learning is I have to learn to catch it.

To center and then to pivot.

Yes.

In other words, gee, I am feeling that I don't need to instead of just the reactionary sort of thing.

So catch it, get back centered.

Okay, I have a space here.

I can actually choose this.

And then to pivot toward a different thing, get the negative neurotransmitters processed and out and give some space for positive things.

Yeah, and you said the word choice.

It really is this understanding ultimately that we are at choice.

Right.

There's the surfer analogy.

Like the waves of life will happen.

We don't control the waves of life.

We can either stand in front of them kind of defiantly and take the hits, or we can grab a surfboard and get up and kind of be in flow and have it be fun and exciting.

And as the waves shift, instead of it being scary, you're like, oh, this is fun.

Let's do this waves, come on, let's, let's do this thing.

Right.

So yeah, it's that, yeah, that realization of choice.

Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead, finish up.

No, that's it.

It's exactly what you're saying, that we are, we're not at choice.

We don't control every.

There's so much that we don't control in our lives, but we can control how we respond to it.

So.

And that choice is 100% of the determiner of our state of being and happiness and what we create.

It doesn't matter what goes on.

The waves are going to do whatever they're going to do and they've doing it for 18 zillion billion years and flawlessly, you know, here we are.

And so fussing about those is not only pointless but futile and painful at the same time.

Right?

Yes.

So I want you to tell me and us, how do we find out more?

Like, have you produced programs, you made a reference to a positive intelligence thing?

Is that yours or is that something you use at somebody else's?

What kind of programs do you have that somebody who's like intrigued by this and convinced that for whatever reason they are absolutely an underrepresented community, maybe of one doesn't matter.

And they're interested in finding out more about what you do and how to, how to find you.

How do we do that?

I appreciate that my website's really the easiest place to find everything@shantijoygold.com and that's where you'll learn about the coaching that I do.

I do have a six month program that includes the mental fitness work that we talked about as well as other, other work that I do and other tools that I, I have access to that are very powerful and that's.

You can also learn about the podcast there.

So there's all kinds of fun things to explore at the website and that's probably the best place to go.

I'm also of course, on LinkedIn and, and Instagram.

So easy to find.

S H A N T I J O Y G o l d shantijoygold.com Please go there and check it out.

Well, you know, people watch or they listen and they might be driving or doing whatever.

So go there and check it out.

I have had the opportunity to talk with Shanti a number of times, and she's a dear, dedicated, committed woman who is about making a positive difference in the world.

And heaven knows we could use as much of that as we can stand.

Right.

Well, it's so good to know you are out in the world doing what you do and I admire the work you do in the world, who you are in the world.

This podcast being one example of everything you, from what I can tell, live, eat and breathe on a daily basis in order to make the world a better place.

So thank you for.

You're welcome.

So is there anything I didn't ask you that you want to share about?

Anything that would be fun for people to hear?

I don't know.

I just released.

I actually released that episode with my dad today.

He's one of the coolest people on the planet.

No dad bias in there, I assure you.

So and so much of everything that I am originates and is anchored in my dad.

I mean, that's what parents do, right?

But he's an exceptional human.

And the thing that came to mind when you asked that today was my dad's episode.

You know, check him out.

He's amazing.

And the wisdom that he offers in that episode is priceless.

He called me and said there's a friend of his that's known him his whole life and he listened to that episode and it changed him for the better just listening to what my dad had to say.

So I have no doubt now this isn't gonna be released for a while.

So does that episode have a number or a name so they can find it?

It's episode 14.

It just came out today.

And my dad is Ron David Gold.

So if you look for episode 14 with Ron Gold, I think you'll.

I know you'll walk away with something new, worth, worth thinking about.

Thank you.

And thank you for doing that.

And I would absolutely encourage every person listening to go do that.

Go to the website and listen to episode 14, Ron David Gold, and hear the resilience, the wisdom, and the go for itness that I am sure encapsulates and describes his life.

Shanti, thank you for being with me today.

Thank you for sharing your heart.

Thank you for sharing your funny stories and for the journey that you are not only still walking, but committed to helping other people walk to be their own authentic, vulnerable selves.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you, Kellen.

Really appreciate it.

You're welcome.

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So go back and listen again and just see where these thoughts land in your heart so that you can move forward to create your ultimate life right here, right now.

Your opportunity for massive growth is right in front of you.

Every episode gives you practical tips and practice practices that will change everything.

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